Does the Family want to move venues?

[Sean]

In lieu of having this discussion at an already jam packed Van Slam Family meeting on the 14th of June I've started this thread to see what the general family thinks about it.

As some of you know, we were forced to relocate one of our semi finals this year (and notified only 10 days before the event) because the cafe needed renovations. We actually found out later that the cafe deux soleils was being rented for a movie shoot.

We found a venue seven days before the event in the form of the End Cafe and the event went really well. In fact we fit more people into the end than we could at cafe deux soleils. The cafe deux soleils I should say has everything we need except perhaps room to grow (we are currently close to capacity at most shows). And it has been our home for many years now and treats us very well in general. That being said, if we could not have found a venue for that semi finals it would have caused us a couple of headaches to say the least.

Currently I feel that we should not move venues and simply see if we can do more shows at cafe deux soleils but I owe it to the community as a whole to present this question. I should also say that moving to the End cafe would cost us money in that we would either have to rent or perhaps buy audio equipment for the show. That and I don't believe there was any malice behind the canceling/renovating situation. I don't think Jeff the owner realized how important it was to us.

Your thoughts?

[ms_spelt]

Thank you Slam Master McGarraglle.
You are correct in noting that for many years that CDS was a key part of our growth and treated us well-
but you are also correct in noting that
a)they were less than honest with us about the "renovations"
b)they provided us rather sudden and some could claim unduly short notice.
c)that the costs and ramifications for us could have been substantial.
d)that in moving to the End Cafe for the short term exigency may have provided us with a new option for the next stage of our development.
Because we need room to grow.
We moved our Finals when it became apparent that the CDS was too small for them. But kept our regualr season and semis there.
Our new growth now begs the questions-
do we change venues for semis and finals leaving the regular season at CDS?
or do we change venue entirely-our regular season, semis and finals never again at CDS?
Whichever we decide I think the key things to keep in mind are these-
whatever new venue we choose-should we choose one-needs to be able to maintain our foundation.
Change of venue to a place that's inconveinent for the core can result in a drop in growth. We had great numbers at The Press Club and made a bad choice in our next venue. It had the room for our growth but it's location saw a regression in our audience numbers.
Moving to CDS gave us not only the room to grow but it put us in a location where growth was more likely.
The End is conveinent for our core audience and has room for it to grow.
and the other thing, as always is $
At CDS we have a sound system that we do not have to rent and a venue that is free.
That's a big upside.
Chris mentioned to me that we wound up incurring costs at The End in terms of sound system etc.
But at least they weren't charging us for venue rental.
regardless of the decision we reach you are absolutely correct that the time has come for this discussion.
Thank you for bringing it to the table.

[Duncan Shields]

I think that growth is really something we should look at.  I liked the End Cafe.  (Now St. Augustine's, I think)  I think we could sell out a larger venue every week if we're already packing CDS.  For the moment, though, I think we're okay.

It couldn't hurt to ask the people at the End cafe for some prices.  And maybe get Kaelyn or whoever to research some prices.

[RCW]

The End is now St. Augustines?  Really?  Yoiks.

The fact that the venue has once again changed names/directions and so on suggests it might be a place to examine very carefully.

Cafe Deux can be jerks occasionally but they are tremendously stable.

R

[ms_spelt]

Fair point.
I've lived in this hood a while-and seen that location cycle through a bunch of hands.
I can remember when it was a Binos
no joke.
I don't know exactly why that location has proven so snakebitten-but it has.
that being said,
growth is a key issue for us at present.
the rules committee can attest to that. ;)We haven't given our selection process and sign up anywhere near the same level of attention as our playoffs over the last 8 years or so and the impact of growth has meant we've had a lot to chew on-and I think we're doing good work there.
but one of the other-and most visible and immediate places we are feeling the impact of growth is the venue itself.
maybe we need to look at CDS for regular season, a new venue for semis, and the rio for finals.
semis and final are where we experience the biggest spike in our growth anyways.
and CDS being willing to "be jerks" during our semis wasn't "stability". It was a nasty wrench that could have been far worse if not for sean's heroic efforts and the end stepping up.
not sure exactly if I have a firm position on this matter -yet.
but i'd support CDS regular season and a new venue for semis and finals at the rio.
 

[RCW]

I meant "stable" as in they are still around after 8 years and not changing every 4 months.

Although they do seem to go through staff fairly quickly.

[ms_spelt]

Fair enough.
I think both the stability you mention and the type I mention are important.
It's important to have a venue that isn't going anywhere-The Press Club was a great venue but it was drowning in red ink on the nights we weren't there.
And then we moved to the Purple Onion-which was far more stable,by that metric.
But whose mgt never bought on supportively of us and began to undermine us in a variety of way.this time the instability manifested differently but was at the root-among some other things of us eventually having to leave there.
enter CDS
a stable venue, with stable and supportive mgt, and conveinient for our audience base.
the trifecta.
we had ourselves a home and a hit on our hands.
if we elect to move we need to be sure that we can ensure we have all the key ingredients present.
if CDS has more of them-even if it's a bit spotty at times-it's still the better option.
but if we can find an improvement, I think recent events and recent growth merit examining the possibility.
all the best
spelt

[misspeters]

I personally feel that a change of venue is a potentially very bad idea. I have only been living on the Drive for about a year, and have seen The End/Augustines etc. go through a few changes as well, so I wouldn't trust that place very far.

But more importantly, I think a big reason for the success of the event IS the venue--the right lighting, sound, and physical audience setup has a lot to do with how people react to the slam. At CDS, people can sit alltogether at long tables, cram into long booths, and everyone circles around the stage, maximizing the potential to watch poetry and meet people. If we were in a theatre-seated venue, for example (and I know that wouldn't happen regularly), people would cheer less, drink less, and thus come less. It's not just for the slam that people come, it's for the community feeling and a fun night out on the town. Changing venue changes the vibe, which is a very dangerous thing for a longstanding community event to do, especially if it is so successful. That's my two cents!

[Duncan Shields]

Most of this interest in looking at maybe changing (or adding) venues comes from the fact that if Cafe Deux Soleils burns down, the Poetry Slam is finished.  We need to lessen our dependence on CDS and start making the Vancouver Poetry Slam into a sort of seal of quality that means that no matter where it is, you're in for a great night.

Not easy to do and a pretty tall order but that's where the roots of this idea are coming from.  When you look at it like that, I sort of feel like adding a venue on a different night and letting it grow might not be a bad idea.  More insurance than anything else.  Yeah, doing the slam at Me and Julio's or the Libra Room or St. Augustine's is going to create a different night than CDS.  I don't really see that as a problem, just a challenge.  I'd like to try out slams at a different venue just to see what kind of problems develop.  Doing nothing with all the growth we have at the moment makes me a little nervous.

I'm talking baby steps.  I'm not talking about shutting down the slam at CDS and moving to broadway and Main in November or anything like that.  I just think a little exploration beyond theory is needed.

[Shannon]

I've noticed Cafe Deux has made changes that have affected the good times once had there.  The two things I 've noticed, that seem to affect the room include:

1. Lighting. It is very dark now, which makes filming difficult, and changes the mood of the room. as they don't put out candles on the table anymore.

2.  Noise from the counter.  Noisy drinks are more likely to be made now during the performances, which sets a different tone and feel.

Before switching venues it might be worth a chat to the owners there to see if some of those things and anything else that is currently behind the question of whether it should be moved, can be addressed.

[Duncan Shields]

Just to make it clear, I think we're all pretty happy with Cafe Deux Soleils.  This isn't about saying they're a bad place to perform or that we're horribly dissatisfied with them or anything.  This is just about the fact that we are, as a matter of routine now, pushing ten to twenty people away every Monday (I think).  We're getting a little bigger than CDS.  I think we can rock that for another year but it would be cool to try out some other options, toe-in-the-water kind of things, and see what happens.

[Shannon]

I see.

I guess I am saying, that there are some changes that have occurred at Cafe Deux that I would like to see changed back. But I am also getting old lately, and the lighting bugs me.  But I have heard others discussing the changes in volume and lighting interfering with their good time too.

I do like it there, it's easy to get to, it's cozy, the food/drinks are at a good price, and every seat is a good one (which is rare!).

If we moved, we'd still have a problem of reliance if that new place burned down.  Having it at two different places seems odd for marketing/advertising and word of mouth.  Now, when someone sees me or others perform and they ask where they can see more, I just say 'come down to Cafe Deux on any given Monday'. Its a great marketing tool and easy to remember.

[Duncan Shields]

Yeah.  Well, there was talk of having the alt slams where there on Mondays and also having them once or twice a month at a different venue as well.  Then, after a year, making CDS strictly regular slam and youth slam and making that other venue completely alt slams, thereby making them more than twelve slams a year.  So there's be TWO nerd slams a year.  TWO pan-african slams a year.  I think there's an audience for that. 

That way, after a year or so, the regular slam would be every monday at Cafe Deux Soleils and the alt slams would be every Thursday at wherever.  Two different audiences, two different energies.

It's an idea.  I'd like spread poetry to more places and get the VPS 'brand' to be a signifier of quality, no matter what venue it's at.  All open for discussion.

[BigDeal]

As an outsider, I'll say this: I've been on the Cafe stage three times and absolutely loved it. Very welcoming crowd, intimate space, topnotch sound, no problems with staff. Only one criticism, which Shannon brought up -- it's annoying that the bar is so close to people, because when someone gets a cappucino or smoothie or something, it's too loud.

Otherwise, you got a good thing going. But I understand the idea of looking elsewhere just in case, it's what we like to do in TO. As much as we're married to the Drake now, we hold alt-slams and fundraisers at venues like The Boat, Tranzac, Clinton's, etc. We realize Toronto can be a fickle city, the Drake is a hot venue too and sometimes they book big acts and we can't compete. At Cafe Deux, you guys make the cafe what it is. To be honest, doubt I would go there if it weren't for the Slam.

[Duncan Shields]

Cool.  Thanks.  Good to get an outside perspective on this.