Should the Alt Slams be moved to a non Monday night?

[Sean]

The premise is simple...In the hopes of expanding our audience base, should the Alt Slams be moved to a non Monday night and have the 2nd Monday of the month become another qualifying slam?

Thoughts?

[ms_spelt]

A)we have a large and regular audience base so I don't see the need to expand it with another qualifying slam.
B)on the contrary- I think alt slams do more to diversify our audience,while expanding it.In addition they act as great means to inspire innovation in the poets by allowing and encouraging them to take risks outside their comfort zone, without risking a spot in playoffs.
that being said....
As i understand it moving the alt slams to a non monday wouldn't get rid of the alt slams-it'd just move them to a different night.and it'd give the poets trying for playoffs more opportunities to do so.
which i think is the real issue here-
do we need to expand how many qualifying slams we have?
which hinges on what selection process we use....
I have two proposals that I encourage everyone to look at.
one is a hybrid of how we do it now and one gets rid of seeding altogether in favour of cumulative points gained based on what rank you get in the top five.
I've crunched the numbers from this season into the proposed system and engaged in some informed speculation and i encourage input.
for those leery of abandoning seeding altogther please consider that this year seeding didn't play a factor.
If you had a 1st place or a 2cnd place finish you were into playoffs.and the names of everyone who scored 1 or 2 was simply drawn at random to determine playoffs.
now...however you feel about the executive making that decision without consultation( a well travelled topic by this point on other threads;+))the fact remains that they did and so let's examine whether or not we wish to seed next season and if so how-if at all.
now's your chance to have a say-some seeding,all seeding or no seeding-have a look and have your say.
myself-i've been a fan of the seeding process as we've done it-but I like the cumulative points system as it rewards consistent excellence over one great night.
cumulative points also has another key advantage in that some folks are gonna clinch or be well on their way to it more demonstrably and thus are freer to help us with our off stage personnel shortfalls.
so i'd like to see what system we're going to employ for qualifying before we get to far down the road on how many qualifiers.
that being said....
i can use every chane to qualify I can get and this scene can always use more mics during the week.;+)

 

[ms_spelt]

there is also another issue at play here in regards to moving the alt slams.
cafe deux soliel-as has been noted-has done some things that have merited re evaluating whether we wish to move venues altogether-and establishing a new venue with the alt slams may be the road to a transition from cafe deux to a new home entirely.
so the question may seem simple but the factors at play are less so.
I still think this a conversation worth having sean and thanks for raising it-I just think we need to fully examine this and all of it's implications and motivations and that it goes beyond well beyond audience base-which is frankly the least of our worries.
so let's address our selection process and what we need from a home venue and how to achieve it.Moving the alt slams may well fit into that bigger picture-but i think it's important to keep that bigger picture fully in mind.

[Shannon]

I like it on Mondays. 

Right now its cool because I  know that on every Monday I can see poetry.  It is also a useful marketing tool, because sometimes when people ask me where they can see more slam poetry I just tell them 'Mondays at Cafe De'.

[Duncan Shields]

There would still be poetry every Monday at Cafe Deux Soleils.  It would just solely be official Vancouver Poetry Slam nights.

Moving the alt slams to a different night (and I mean making it weekly instead of once a month) would enable us to have FOUR pan-african slams a year, FOUR women's poetry slams a year, FOUR nerd slams a year, etc. 

It could even open the floor up to have different themes.  A 'Cooking slam' that has poems solely to do with food and recipes, for instance. 

I'd argue that the youth slams should continue to have one night a month on Mondays *and* once a month at the alt slams new night.  So they'd get twice a month instead of once a month and there'd be one more qualifying Slam Night per month on the Mondays.

I think it's a devilishly interesting proposition and a great way to possibly bridge to another venue. 

[ms_spelt]

here's an idea....
moving the youth slams to say.... friday nights.
here's what i'm thinkin'...
the last monday of the month becomes an alt slam.
and the youth slam-which has got up a head of steam now-can go monthly.
4 youth slams a month-and if we did it on friday night...
it's not a school night,and wouldn't parents rather have their kids out at the slam on fridays than whatever it is the kids do on fridays these days
but seriously-there is lot's of adult stuff on fridays. But not much for the youth.
so...
we'd get an extra qualifier.
we'd get the same number of alt slams.
and we'd get 4 youth slams.
and we could bridge to a new venue-which,at first,would be a place and a night once a week for the youth slammers to call their own.

the one drawback i see right away is friday night words is on fridays.
I don't know if we wish to move it or not-friday night words isn't my domain,so perhaps someone more involve with it could answer that.
but ultimately i'd rather see more youth slams than alt slams.
and that's from someone more eligible to slam in alt slams than youth slams.

[Susan]

Moving non-qualifying slams to a different night of the week brings up two concerns for me.

First, whenever an event's venue or date is changed, a good chunk of the audience and participants are lost. Some of them eventually migrate to the new place/date, but there virtually always is a noticeable difference between attendance pre- and post-change. Not everyone who can come on Mondays is also available to attend on, say, Fridays. And although there will be some who are like, "Hey wow, the slam (which I've never been to because Mondays are bad for me) is now on Fridays, so I can finally go!", considering that the bulk of advertising for the slam is internal (word-of-mouth, etc), I think the amount of people dropped will be greater than the amount of people gained.

This is not to say that any slam moved to a different date would not eventually recover and be as gung-ho and sold out as it currently is -- but there will be a transistion period.

Second, I am concerned about the separation of 'slam proper' from 'all that is not straightforward slam'.

Slam as a genre has often been criticized for being narrowminded and incestuous (in terms of themes, styles, and influence), and I have been so thrilled to see in the past few years VanSlam making a distinct effort to encourage non-stereotypical-slam performances. The youth slam (which started as a crew of youngsters operating separately from VanSlam) was embraced and promoted by VPH/VanSlam. Team pieces, which previously were accepted only in one annual team slam, were given mere point penalties. Alt slams of various flavours were booked months in advance, with great enthusiasm.

Now, the idea of separating the qualifying slam poetry nights from the non-qualifying slams seems like stepping backwards on this progress of integrating fresh ideas and innovations into the world of slam. Distinctly separating the two (slamming for finals qualification / slamming for fun and entertainment and experimentation) re-validates the idea that 'the poetry is not the point, getting the points (and qualifying, and winning) are the point.'

* * * * *

I don't believe in making a major change in something that ain't broken unless there's a need for doing so. *If* there is a need to increase the audience base -- to increase revenue, perhaps, or to reach different ears -- then yes, increasing the number of slams held per month would be one way of doing so. However, would different people come out to these new nights, or would the audience be the same faces? How would having more qualifying slams increase the audience base?

* * * * *

The idea of moving to a new venue has been bouncing around for awhile. Increasing the number of slams per month, moving some slams to a different date and/or venue, then switching venues entirely is rather complicated, and will make it difficult for potential new audience members -- "It's a Friday, so there's a slam now, but wait -- it's at the new venue. No, wait a minute, the youth slam is at the new venue on Mondays starting next month? or was that last month? Am I thinking of the alt slams? No, those are on the third Tuesdays of....Aw heck, I'll just go to the library instead." Keep things simple and clean and, as Shannon mentioned, easy to advertise via word-of-mouth.

[ms_spelt]

i tend to agree with you on this sue.
for all the reasons you've stated-i threw my suggestion out there as a refinement on the existing proposal.
ultimately i like it the way it is-but if we are to juggle it and move a non qualifier to a non monday(and that's a substantial IF)I was throwing in my two cents on how i'd prefer to see it done.
thanks for making the case for the status quo as eloquently as you did.

[Duncan Shields]

Hm.  Good points, Susan.  I never thought of it like that.  I mean, I know there'll be a transition period and I hear what you're saying about organization, especially when it comes to word-of-mouth publicity.

I was seeing it more like giving the alt slams a chance to be free, to be more than once a month and to be not tied to the qualifying slams.  I was thinking that it was their turn to fly and exist in their own right.  I saw so many faces at the Pan African Slam that I had never seen before and never saw again.  Same with the worker's slam, the nerd slam, the women's slam and a bunch of the other ones.  I mean, the usual vanslam suspects were there but I think there were people at those events who only came out for that themed event and weren't interested in the qualifying slams.

I was thinking that giving those nights more times per year for those audiences would be a good thing. 

But I really see what you're saying about separating the two.  It would almost be like excising the variety and encouraging nature from the VanSlam Mondays.  Hmmm.

The idea of adding another Youth Slam night is a neat idea as well but I tend to think that the youth probably have better things to do on a Friday.  Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Interesting to think about.

[Son of Mallin]

We also might want to consider what having four regular slams a month would do to us: first, it would complicate the finals tournament, doubling the amount of qualifying winners from the season-long slams.  Also, if we have regular poetry slams THAT often, then those who don't or can't go to these non-Monday alt slams will have a strong feeling of non-diversity in poetry as they come to the same old thing again and again, and those who are dedicated enough to come to weekly poetry slams and bi-weekly alt slams will be all poetried out.  Either way, our popularity and our audience base will begin to wane. 

I was kind of squeamish when I found out slams were going to start to happen every week.  Poetry more than once a week is a bit too much for people.

[Shannon]

that sounds like too much slam
i am already getting sick of slam and i love it

more spoken word nights that combine art forms that is *not* on the drive and therefore attracts a different poet and audience might be cool

but more slam?  i don't think so, i feel saturated as it is

[RCW]

I would say "no" to moving the alt slams.

It's difficult enough as it is getting people out to poetry shows on non Monday nights as is...Friday night words, the Speak N Sing, The Poetry Show, Teen Angst etc.

If we want more qualifying slams we could just extend the season.  You could start it earlier if you wanted.  Especially if it's important to have Finals during poetry month which is certainly not a bad idea.

If the goal is to expand audience base I think Shannon's idea is good...more spoken word non slam shows, mixed with poetry slams in other parts of the city.  The upcoming Derrick Brown, Julien Bentley, Josh Martinez show would be a good example.  Although that is not a Van Slam Production.

Also I don't think moving the Youth Slam is viable at this time.  It's only getting it's legs now after 16 months on the 4th Monday.  Moving it again would probably have us start all over again.

Good discussion.

[Lisa]

Just a reminder that - just because there are more shows doesn't mean that we all have to go to every show. Clearly there is an audience that is hungry for the kind of work that we do - does it make sense to add another chance for them to see it, in some form?

I don't think that we need to necessarily move the alt slams - but adding more Van Slam-produced shows in new spaces is, I think, a reasonable strategy for growth. It also allows new volunteers to step up and have a bit more flexibility. They may  not be ready to run a weekly show, but once a month might work.

[ms_spelt]

well put lisa -and i already have at least two potential new venues-one of which is actually an old one.The charlatan.formerly bukowski's.i start work there on the 8th of april and just may be able to use my place on staff and their need of ideas to increase business on slow nights to return poetry there on tuesdays.

[Son of Mallin]

While it's true we don't have to go to every show, starting to have some of them on non-Mondays, including the alt-slams we've come to love, could be a small disloyalty to those to have come for years and can make Mondays but not Tuesdays, for whatever reason.  Imagine the kind of anger that people have for Facebook, except that here they're paying for what they get.  I just have a feeling that any slams we move to non-Mondays will be about the size of one of our Cottage Bistro events, or even smaller.