Author Topic: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09  (Read 13497 times)

Sean

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2009, 08:29:55 PM »
Chris and co.

Here are the draws for both semifinals. The draw was done prior to the last chance slam so as to better prepare those whom had already qualified. Both slammasters were present and agreeable to the format while neither did the actual drawing of names. The task of name drawing was done by Sue McIntyre and Trevor Groves--neither of which was in the competition--and witnessed by Warren Dean Fulton, both slammasters and of course our lovely webmaster.

Unlike last year, this year only poets whom had place either 1st or 2nd in qualifying slams and could adhere to the contract, made semi finals. The person with the highest scores from the last chance slam was slotted in the 1st night while the person with the second highest scores was slotted in the 2nd semi finals.

On Monday March 30th
RC Weslowski, Steve Miller, Vitamin F, Nora Smithhisler, Ed Word, Spillious, Clint "Father Goose" Wilson and Zaccheus Jackson perform while Atticus Thenn features and Sean McGarragle hosts

On April 6th,
Lisa Slater, Lucia Misch, Shannon Rayne, Duncan Shields, Relevant, Johnny McCrae, Scruffmouth and Sean McGarragle perform as Barbara Adler features and RC Weslowski hosts.

The format will see each poet do two 3 minutes poems with the standard 10 second grace period. The order in the second round will be reversed from the first as to hopefully combat score creep among the judges. In the event of a tie for fourth place there will be a 3 minute poem slam off. In the event of a tie still standing there will be another slam off with the two poets switching rotation positions. I believe this is the same format as last year.

Finals Night on April 20th at the Rio Theatre will see Shane Koyczan featuring and the top four poets from each bracket competing for the four slots on the Vancouver Poetry Slam Team. The 3 rounds of poets total scores will be used to calculate the top performers that evening. The 5th place finisher will have earned the alternate position that will be utilized should any team member be unable to adhere to the team's obligations.

The format for finals will be a 1st round of 3 minute poems with this time a 20 second grace period, followed by a one minute round with no grace period which will have the poets go in reverse order from the first round. The 3rd round which will follow the feature set from Shane Koyczan and also be 3 minutes with a 20 second grace period will be random draw...meaning any poet in the competition could go up in any one of the 8 finals night slots. I believe this was decided at the second to last or last slam family meeting in accordance with suggestions that various family members proposed after witnessing and participating in last year's finals.

Hopefully all that's clear.

Sean

P.S.
Please feel free to email me/Lisa Slater or contact me/Lisa Slater at the shows should anyone have any further questions. I will be at the Poetry Faceoff on Friday and I hope to see you all there.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 06:10:16 AM by Sean »

pooka

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2009, 09:52:20 AM »
MARCH 16th last chance slam

so if scores are correct
Julie Peters, not Francis was 3rd place finisher

A Question for Both Slam Masters

Sean & Lisa

Is it right for Sean to host when he will be competing the following week in semi's?

As the face to many of the Vancouver Poetry Slam, as Slam Masters, both Sean & Lisa grace the stage, are acknowledged for their hard work, given praise & applause, will this not work in both their favours for the semi's w/ the judges?
As their work in the community, their hosting, their person will be rewarded, rather than simply the poem & its performance.

Something to think about. 8)

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2009, 01:22:15 PM »
Hey pooka,

The confusion over the scores was my fault. I reported them correctly, but accidentally put "Third!" beside Julie Peters and Francis. I've corrected it now. As you can see from the actual scores, it was Francis, not Julie, who came in third on that night. So the scorekeeper and host got it right.

As for Sean hosting, I would encourage all members of the community not to get so obsessed with ferreting out every possible judging bias. In performance poetry, the person and their work are inextricably linked. Let's not psychoanalyze judges, and let's not make it more difficult to run a show that already has a huge deficit of organizational manpower (and womanpower!). We don't have a lot of good hosts, and we need experienced hosts to work these bouts. Knowing Sean, I'm sure he is trying to make everything as fair as possible.

RCW

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2009, 04:30:43 PM »
I agree with Chris in regards to worrying about all the various potential biases.  We have a pretty fair system in place but we don't live in a bubble.

If other people want to host the Van Slam they need to step up and say so.  We have had some volunteers at the last Van Slam meeting but I think the idea was to go with experienced hosts for the playoff run.  Much like more experienced referees being used during the NHL Playoffs.


ms_spelt

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2009, 06:35:26 PM »
A)a change to the selection process needs to go through the rules committee and the slam family-as per our constitution.So i have a problem with the slammasters changing the selection process without notice to either of these bodies-even if it something as slight as the change that was made.because the change to process was slight i'll let it go-BUT we have a constitution and set policies for a reason and having them disregarded by the executive isn't cool.
so please,in the future could we abide our own rules and regulations instead of ad hoc letting the slammasters be a law unto themselves?the two slammasters sit on the rules committee so following the rules would still include them in the decision-but it actually also allow the rules committee to do their job.
B)Sean is in a conflict of interest being in the playoffs and hosting any of them while he is still in contention.I have experience hosting and bout managing at both the local and the PSI level-and I'm out of the running-I'd happily do this task-and wasn't asked.If I had been asked i'd say yes-someone ask me to host semis-please.;+)i seriously wish to volunteer to do this-I'm a duly elected rules committe member and experienced host and former slam master-and I have no coflict of interest as does sean.
I am concerned here that the executive needs to step back and remember the rules they are there to uphold.
regards
spelt
"this is the law of the jungle-as old and as true as the sky.
every wolf that keeps it shall prosper-every wolf that does not must die
like the creeper the girdles the tree trunk,the law circles forward and back
the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

Sean

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2009, 08:37:15 PM »
Angus,

The choice of who would host semi finals was made in the beginning of December when I was unsure whether or not I even wished to slam in semis... if I had the chance. The idea was that we would have the hosts that hosted regularly hosting for playoffs while having the person whom knew the rules, bout manage each event.

I am moderately upset that you take issue with me hosting and not RC...that feels personal.

If the majority of the performers in the bouts fear that I am biased in my hosting style than they should tell me. I don't believe that to be the case. The options were considered as to who should  be hosting the bouts and a decision was made based on who hosted regularly during the regular season (without much conflict or problems).

The show (not any one host or poet) is the most important thing. If it was that important to certain individuals that we have more hosts in the playoffs than more people should have hosted in the regular season. The regular season makes the playoffs. The hosts from the regular season become the hosts in the playoffs. If the majority of the performers in playoffs want me to either step aside as a competitor or as host then they need to tell me that and that is what I shall do. I will not treat them unwell or feel bad. That is how they feel. The needs of the many...

In the mean time I am going to focus on trying to find a new venue for semi finals #1 as I have just been informed by Cafe Deux Soleils that they are not going to be open March 30th-April 2nd.




sue

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2009, 05:33:26 AM »
Both RC and Sean are experienced hosts who will host fairly without trying to manipulate the outcomes to favour their prospects for reaching finals. Any favour that they may receive from the judges on their bout nights as a result of being well-known and liked as regular hosts has already been established through the season. I give Sean, RC and the judges credit for keeping things fair from their respective ends.

The Semis give us the opportunity to have members of the rules committee present to help with any issues/questions that may crop up during the bouts. It's exciting to know that this is our inaugural year for this practice. Angus, I think this is where we need you on the 30th and 6th, not up on the stage.

These next few weeks are the culmination of our season - hours of work put in by those who organize, those who support and those who perform. Now is the time to work together in a spirit of support and good will. This is our show and our art, our community. Let's celebrate together.

ms_spelt

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2009, 08:56:20 AM »
sean- to clarify-i don't take issue with you and not rc.the question was raised-by warren-about you and so i spoke to that.I didn't know who was hosting the other semi.and given that rc is the host and that rc is in the same conflict of interest i'm gonna be consistent here and say i have an equal problem.
and when you made the decision to host semis,you should have made it clear that you weren't going to put yourself in this conflict of interest by also attempting to qualify for semis.
but you have qualified for semis as has rc-and congrats to you both on that.but,frankly that puts both of you in a conflict of interest.
and there is no reason not to correct it.
I am highly qualified to do the job-in fact i more experience running tournament bouts than any one else locally.and i have no such conflict as i regrettably did not make semis.;+)
I am not simply pointing out an issue for the sake of obstruction-i'm pointing it out because it effects the integrity of the selection process-and I'm offering a solution that works.
and to be frank-it looks bad when someone with a conflict of interest refuses to step down in favour of someone with more experience and no conflict of interest.
Now...I realise that we don't have two people to fill both slots-and as I said,I'm standing on principle not people here.so I'm not saying you step down and let randy stay on.
I'd be willing to do both semis.
that way each semi gets the same official,with no conflict of interest,and a wealth of experience.consistency and fairness and expertise.and I'm a duly elected member of the rules committee-so democratic to boot;+)
do the right thing here guys.
as for the draw....
fixing this now is putting toothpaste back in the tube.It's done and I'm not gonna ask that it be undone-BUT I do feel compelled to say that it changes the seeding in a demonstrable way and that is a change to tournament structure and rules and as such needs to be-in future-vetted by the rules committee.let's see what the actual net effect is vs the old way and then let's put it on the table for the rules committee before we commit to either practice next season.
so there you have it-i'm conditionally willing to drop the draw issue,but i'm standing firm on the semis issue.
"this is the law of the jungle-as old and as true as the sky.
every wolf that keeps it shall prosper-every wolf that does not must die
like the creeper the girdles the tree trunk,the law circles forward and back
the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

ms_spelt

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2009, 09:13:27 AM »
sue-
as a member of the rules committee-all of the members of the rules committee will be present and oing our jobs-whether we are on stage or not.sean is a member of the rules committee and this doesn't preclude him from hosting-his being in semis is the conflict.
lisa slater is slammaster and not hosting as she is in semis
trevor spilchen is on the rules committee and a regular host and he isn't hosting-because he's in semis
but rc and sean who are regular hosts and one of whom is slammaster are hosting and they are in semis-consistency makes good policy and principle.and this isn't consistent.
it's not simply enough that we all know sean and rc to be trustworthy folks-it's the precendent it sets and the appearance it gives.
it's bad precedent and it means that should a protest of any kind arise our behind isn't covered because we let both semis be run by people with conflicts of interest.
I should also state that i asked if barbara was available to host as she fits all the criteria the slammasters stated they were after-and was told by lisa that barb wasn't available-and now i see she is the feature-so she is available to feature but not to host it seems.
It's all a little disengenous for my liking.
we have a problem and the argument that we are doing the best we can with imperfect resources would hold more water if one of the resources that we had-me-wasn't being discarded out of hand so readilly.
"this is the law of the jungle-as old and as true as the sky.
every wolf that keeps it shall prosper-every wolf that does not must die
like the creeper the girdles the tree trunk,the law circles forward and back
the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

ms_spelt

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2009, 09:20:12 AM »
here is the van slam constitution on the rules committee...
The Rules Committee

The Vancouver Poetry Slam will maintain a standing rules committee of at least five members. The committee will be made up of regular Van Slam emcees, the Slammasters, and two members elected by the Slam Family. These members will be elected in January of odd-numbered years (2009, 2011, 2013, etc). The committee’s duties comprise-

1) Providing information and clarification on the rules to any and all members of the Vancouver Poetry Slam
2) Guiding discussion regarding potential changes to Van Slam’s format, outlining their implications and making recommendations to the Van Slam Family.
3) Acting in turns as the emcee for the Vancouver Poetry Slam and its attendant playoffs.
4) Emcees will rule on the rules at all regular-season (non-playoff) bouts they are officiating and are empowered to assign the relevant penalties in accordance with the rules on the night they are overseeing. The emcee’s rulings are final.
5) At all playoffs, the emcee and two members of the Rules Committee (previously designated by the Chair of the Rules Committee in conjunction with the Slammasters) will be the Protest Committee. Any alleged rule violation must be brought to the Protest Committee by the end of the playoff (before scores are announced). The Protest Committee will convene immediately after the bout will deliver a decision within an hour of the end of the playoff.
6) In the event of an alleged Code of Honour violation-
Within one week of the allegation being lodged, a minimum of three members of the rules committee will convene as a panel and hear from both sides in the dispute. Members of the rules committee who are stakeholders in the dispute will step down from the panel. The committee panel will then discuss the relevant issues at hand and bring a full report to the Van Slam Family and both slammasters and guide discussion and debate to a ruling that can be ratified by a 2/3rds majority. Penalties for an Honour Code violation can range from temporary suspension from Van Slam events, to suspension from playoff participation, to volunteer and community service. Those who are ruled against in the event of an Honour Code violation have two choices-abide by the ruling or cease to attend the Van Slam until the ruling is abided by. Any member of the rules committee who is found to be in violation of the honour code must step down from the committee for a period of not less than 1 year.

note number 2 and number 3
we changed our format and we didn't seek the rules committee to steer that discussion while our constitution says we should.
and note the acting in turns as the hosts of the bouts and attendant playoffs-being on the rules committee doesn't exclude someone from hosting during the year or at semis-in fact it says we should take turns.





"this is the law of the jungle-as old and as true as the sky.
every wolf that keeps it shall prosper-every wolf that does not must die
like the creeper the girdles the tree trunk,the law circles forward and back
the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

RCW

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2009, 10:54:45 AM »
I'm not sure what the conflict actually is.  This supposed conflict wasn't raised during the Last Chance Slam or any other slam that I or Sean or Trevor have hosted.  Each of us were going out for the semis all year long.  If the conflict is present now it was present then and there were no protests or offers to host by anyone (that I am aware of.)

As to Barbara's availability she is filling in on an emergency situation where the scheduled poet decided to cancel 3 weeks before his feature to do a different event.



 

Duncan Shields

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2009, 01:37:14 PM »
As a member of the rules committee, I just want everyone concerned to know that I've read this and that I'm aware of the problems involved.  I don't want to offer a solution until I've thought about the issues a little bit further.   

Duncan Shields

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2009, 01:37:53 PM »
Who's going to be at the Friday Night Words tonight? 

ms_spelt

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2009, 01:57:37 PM »
hey duncan i'll be at friday night words tonight.
as for the rest..... ;)
to my mind one of the most important things we can do is to provide a level playing field where all other advantage/s have been nullified so that the only advantage to be gained is artistic innovation.
and yes....this is going to be inherently a matter that is imperfect.
but we must do the best we can to preserve the integrity of the selection process.
and i want o focus on that phrase to answer your question rc.
the selection process-to my mind-is the entire season.I have heard it said that it is the playoffs alone but i disagree with that. the season is where we selct the people in playoffs so it had to be just as tightly run as the playoffs.
which is where your point comes in.we allowed you and sean to preside over part of that selection process.
so why the outcry now?
fair question.in fact it's an excellent question.
I have some qualms about allowing anyone being selected to preside over any aspect of the selection process.That's not to say that you and sean and lisa and trevor -all of whom have been selected by the process and presided over it throughout haven't done a fair and equitable job when hosting-you have.And it is certainly not to suggest that any of you haven't earned your slot in playoffs-you have.
But I think our selction process-both regular season and playoffs could use some thoughtful revision.
and i'd like to emphasize that it be thoughtful revision arrived at through the steerage of the rules commitee and voted upon by the slam family.
we've grown to the point where ad hoc decisions about format ofr and the execution of the selection process are no longer,imo,viable.
hence we have passed a constituion and rules committee and an honour code.
we need the codified structure-to prevent spurious protests and to properly officiate the valid ones.
so here's what i suggest.
A)We go ahead as we have planned. With the hosts and the competitors as drawn(poets) and appointed(hosts).
B)We agree that there is a need to have the rules committee go over the entire selection process-and empower them to do so- in the gap between now and the beginning of next season.
C)That the rules committee report back their recommendations for a revised and tightened selection process and protocols and steer discussion at a slam family mtg where we ratify these things-and then abide by them until such time that any chnages need to be made.
D)That in keeping with our constitution we only ever make changes to the selection process-in whole or in part-after those changes have been referred to a mtg of the rules committee.

Both slammasters are on that rules committee so any suggestion to flow forth from such a mtg will naturally reflect giving them the latitude they require to carry out their offices-but there are other voices democratically elected on that body as well to ensure that all voices and concerns are weighed and balanced-not just that of the executive.
I think this is more than fair.Making this cat walk backwards may not be in the cards but that is no reason not to move forwards productively using the bylaws,protocols,constitution and committees we worked hard to build.
And should there for any reason be a need to swap a host out of the playoffs-I wish to make it clear that I am willing and able to do this duty. And if ,dearly hope,as a member of the rules committee, with a rather thick CV on bout managing to be bout managing some of these events.If we are serious about personnel resources lets put our money where our mouth is and not sideline someone like myself-with lots of experience and a willingness to help.
laments about lack of qualified personnel ring hollow when someone with my expereince isn't even considered as a candidate for mcing or bout managing.
"this is the law of the jungle-as old and as true as the sky.
every wolf that keeps it shall prosper-every wolf that does not must die
like the creeper the girdles the tree trunk,the law circles forward and back
the strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack"

pooka

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Re: Van Slam Team Play-offs: Standings & Scores for 2008-09
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2009, 02:55:10 PM »
hey folks

since I feel, as one who simply asked a question here regarding the semi's,
that what is felt, and what is record, as evidenced on this forum, is that until after the Last Chance Slam, we those who read the forum for information, were unaware as to the hosts. I missed seeing RC's name. A simple oversight. I thought I saw Barb's, but looking again, see is featuring that night.

The biggest issue before everyone presently appears to be, the venue. To have 1 bout at the regular venue, & the other not (due to events beyond our control), would not create a level playing field. So both should be elsewhere, or both there.
my 2 cents.

Seems much is discussed outside of here. & then later reported.